The Real Dangers

418
points

Reading the New York Times website this afternoon, I ran across an article describing President Bush's latest veto, this time on the subject of interrogation techniques. If this bill had been past, it would have made methods such as waterboarding illegal. For those in the dark: during waterboarding, the victim is strapped to a board, head inclined down with either a cloth or cellophane across their face. Water is then repetitively poured across the victims face, sparking the gag reflex. Some try to claim that waterboarding is not actually torture, but I definitely say it is, and that it is criminal.

I am left to wonder then why Bush would not make waterboarding illegal, for it is definitely cruel/unusual punishment. The reported reason for the move was "'Because the danger remains, we need to ensure our intelligence officials have all the tools they need to stop terrorists,'". Somehow, this just doesn't work for me. For one thing, something tells me that if someone is being practically drowned, they would just tell you what they know you want to hear, regardless of whether or not it's true. Another thing: the United States government condemns terror, and yet we do these terrible, inhumane things ourselves.

It just doesn't seem right to me that we use such harsh methods on our detainees. Surely there's something else we can do, but at this point, I don't really know what else there is. Our own government has turned to terror to get what it wants, which is an appalling thing; now even we seem to be acting as terrorists now.

Please clarify a little

Clafabio,

"The Real Dangers"? Are you trying to say that the real danger today is the U.S. Millitary interrogation techniques?  You do realize that "real danger" would be to enemy combatant detainees, not civilians, right? You do realize that, although uncomfortable and, yes, even scary, you do live through waterboarding, right?

I would argue that the "Real Danger" is the homicide bombers detonating themselves in the midst of civilian gatherings.  The "Real Danger" is from an extremest religous sect that can justify strapping explosives to mentally retarded older women and remote detonating them in the public market (willing combatants? I doubt it).  The "Real Danger" may include the vile beasts that sawed-off Daniel Pearls head on video to strike fear and TERROR into the infidels.  The "Real Danger" may be from these murderous bastards that are willing to blow-up a night club, or a train or subway, or any of the other civilian targets that are attacked by these extremests.

The examples of the "Real Dangers" posed by these terrorists are many, and the goal is murder, not the extraction of information through fear.  Uncomfortable yes, but THEY live through this danger which is more than I can say for the over 3,000 CIVILIANS murdered in a single day in the World Trade Centers. 

Autobob

Autobob | April 21, 2008 - 1:28pm
The Clafabio's picture

Clarification

I am not specifically trying to pin our interrogation techniques down as the real dangers. What I am saying is that they pose a threat to our detainees, and even to our country's morals. We as citizens are not directly affected by the waterboarding of others, it is true. However, you should take a moment to consider the detainees in the midst of this.

Take the detainees at Guantanamo Bay: almost none of them have gone through trials. In the American judicial system, it is said that the accused should be considered innocent until proven guilty. With these detainees, we have done the opposite. Without a trial, we do not have proof that these individuals have done anything wrong. And yet, we submit these people to waterboarding and similar interrogation techniques.

One may argue that some detainees confessed to doing their supposed crimes during interrogations. As I said earlier in my blog entry, if an innocent man is being waterboarded, do you think they will tell you they are innocent, or will they just tell you what they know you want to hear: that they are guilty of the crime?

Our country has long fought for freedom and the defense of people's rights. Yet here we are taking away the rights of this country's detainees. They still deserve a trial; they cannot be imprisoned without trial; they should not be submitted to cruel or unusual punishment. What I am saying is that this country needs to actually follow its own rules and standards with its handling of detainees, of fellow human beings.

The Clafabio | May 6, 2008 - 10:14pm

Due Process???

It seems that you wish to offer enemy combatants our precious Due Process, a right that U.S. Citizens have. These are ENEMY COMBATANTS, not accused shoplifters or jay-walkers. These are people detained, instead of killed, when captured on the battlefield! Follow our own rules? Are you kidding? These people, not being identifiable uniformed military personel, are nothing more than gorilla insurgents and do not even rank the rights afforded under the Geneva Conventions.

They do not get civil trials, they do not get the benefit of "innocent until", they were captured in a war!

Autobob

Autobob | May 7, 2008 - 5:28pm
The Clafabio's picture

My Stand on Combatants in U.S. Custody

For one thing, the United States cannot lay claim to the Due Process concept; many of the ideas inbedded in it originate from the England's Magna Carta and similar documents. One key principal that the Magna Carta in particular touches on is that a man can only be fined in proportion to the crime they committed and "... not so heavily as to deprive him of his livelihood." Now, as I referred to previously, many of the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay have not gone through criminal proceedings to determine their guilt. Even if they are proven guilty, they should be punished to the extent of the crime. They still should not be submitted to such techniques as waterboarding, considering that I think that would be torture.

Enemy combatants that are captured in war should still be treated with justice, and what we are currently doing is not that. If we really stand for equal justice, then I stand by what I have previously said: we really should apply it to our prisoners.

The Clafabio | May 16, 2008 - 12:37am

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